Die volgende Facebookgesprek op Chris van Wyk se muur wys dat Riaan de Villiers van Groote Kerk in Kaapstad die sieninge van Richard Rohr ondersteun en hoogs waarskynlik nie glo dat daar ‘n hel is nie. Dus sal almal hemel toe gaan.
In 2019 is hy ook betrokke by ’n intergeloofsgeleentheid (kyk Kerswaak vir Moskee-moord) wat in ’n groot mate bevestig dat hy nie in ’n hel glo nie, maar eerder ’n universalis is.
Chris van Wyk op Facebook
“Beginning with God’s command to Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree in the garden, the whole of Scripture contains a message concerning “two ways”—a way leading to life or reward, and another way leading to death or punishment. Because this idea of the “two ways” is so deeply rooted in the Bible, I would say that a church congregation that is Bible-preaching and Bible-reading will simply not entertain the idea of universalism. That this doctrine is as widespread as it now is, is a measure of how small a place the Bible occupies in the sermons of many preachers, and in the reading and study habits of many churchgoers.”
Michael McClymond, professor of modern Christianity at Saint Louis University in St. Louis, Missouri. His latest work, The Devil’s Redemption: A New History and Interpretation of Christian Universalism (Baker Academic, 2018), is a 1,300-page history and critique of universalism.
14 September 2018
Nog ’n perspektief… (deur Richard Rohr)
The shape of creation must somehow mirror and reveal the shape of the Creator. We must have a God at least as big as the universe, or else our view of God becomes irrelevant, constricted, and more harmful than helpful. The Christian image of a torturous hell and God as a petty tyrant has not helped us to know, trust, or love God. God ends up being less loving than most people we know. Those attracted to the common idea of hell operate out of a scarcity model, where there is not enough Divine Love to transform, awaken, and save. The dualistic mind is literally incapable of thinking any notion of infinite grace.
The common view of hell and a quid pro quo God is based not on Scripture but on Dante’s Divine Comedy—great poetry, but not good theology. The word “hell” is not mentioned in the first five books of the Bible. Paul and John never once use the word. Most of the Eastern fathers never believed in a literal hell, nor did many Western mystics.
Eastern fathers such as Origen, Clement of Alexandria, Gregory of Nyssa, Jerome, Peter Chrysologus, Maximus the Confessor, and Gregory of Nazianzus taught some form of apocatastasis instead, translated as “universal restoration” (Acts 3:21). Origen writes:
An end or consummation is clearly an indication that things are perfected and consummated. . . . The end of the world and the consummation will come when every soul shall be visited with the penalties due for its sins. This time, when everyone shall pay what he owes, is known to God alone. We believe, however, that the goodness of God through Christ will restore [God’s] entire creation to one end, even [God’s] enemies being conquered and subdued. [1]
Morwenna Ludlow describes Gregory of Nyssa’s two arguments for universal salvation as:
a fundamental belief in the impermanence of evil in the face of God’s love and a conviction that God’s plan for humanity is intended to be fulfilled in every single human being. These beliefs are identified with 1 Corinthians 15:28 [“so that God may be all in all”] and Genesis 1:26 [we are made in God’s “image and likeness”] in particular, but are derived from what Gregory sees as the direction of Scripture as a whole. [2]
If we understand God as Trinity—the fountain fullness of outflowing love, relationship itself—there is no theological possibility of any hatred or vengeance in God. Divinity, which is revealed as Love Itself, will always eventually win. God does not lose (see John 6:37-39). We are all saved by mercy. Any notion of an actual “geographic” hell or purgatory is unnecessary and, in my opinion, destructive of the very restorative notion of the whole Gospel.
Knowing this ahead of time gives us courage, so we don’t need to live out of fear, but from an endlessly available love. To the degree we have experienced intimacy with God, we won’t be afraid of death because we’re experiencing the first tastes and promises of heaven already. Love and mercy are given undeservedly now, so why would they not be given later too? As Jesus puts it, “God is not the God of the dead, but of the living—for to God everyone is alive” (Luke 20:38). In other words, growth, change, and opportunity never cease, even during and after death! Why would it be otherwise?
Chris van Wyk
14 September 2018
En dit is waarom die kwistige gebruik van Richard Rohr in mooi aanhalings, sonder om sy hele teologie te lees, so gevaarlik is, soos met Rob Bell s’n ook. Hulle teologie fokus op die liefde van God, baie keer gebaseer op ‘n soort humanistiese filosofie van “ons weet mos dit kan nie só werk soos dit in die Bybel staan nie” en ignoreer die heilige kant van God. Mense, lees wyd en diep en beoordeel alle teoloë, myself ingesluit, aan die hele openbaring van God in die Bybel, nie net dié dele waarmee jy jouself kan identifiseer nie.
Chris Saayman
14 September 2018
Dis of mens iemand soos Moltmann in Bohr hoor. Denke wat klaarblyklik ingang in sommige NG kringe gevind het. Vernietigend. Totaal in stryd met Skrif en Drie Formuliere. Mooiklinkend soos die vals profete deur die eeue se prediking was (Jer 23). Deur ’n wonder van Bo – hoe weet ekself nie – het Hy my net betyds uit die dryfsand van hierdie denke bevry.
Andries Louw
16 September 2018
Stem hartlik saam met Chris v W en Chris Saayman. Die Here het my ook geleidelik weggelei van die vernietgende liberale teologie wat die Bybelse boodskap ontken en ondergrawe. Naas Rohr en Bell moet ook Marcus Borg genoem word as n teoloog wat met mooiklinkende formulerings die essensies vd evangelie verwerp